tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574858940069385599.post2535449352888641279..comments2023-04-17T21:27:49.092+08:00Comments on Jesus <i>is</i> Jehovah!: I sincerely believe that Jesus is not Jehovah, but that he is Jehovah God's Son #1Stephen E. Joneshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574858940069385599.post-86985271340176650212013-03-01T19:45:48.894+08:002013-03-01T19:45:48.894+08:00Anonymous
>Jesus cannot be Jehovah. If this we...Anonymous<br /><br />>Jesus cannot be Jehovah. If this were true the bible wouldn't make sense. <br /><br />It is the BIBLE which teaches that Jesus is Jehovah God the Son. See my final post on this blog: "<a href="http://jesusisyhwh.blogspot.com.au/2012/12/jesus-is-jehovah.html" rel="nofollow">Jesus IS Jehovah!</a>"<br /><br />>Matt 24:36 talks about the end of the world, and that no-one knows the day or the hour, not the Angels in heaven, not the SON but only the Father. <br /><br />Yes. Jesus is Jehovah God the Son, not Jehovah God the Father. The Bible says in that verse that there was at least one thing, the day and the hour of Jesus' return, that only the Father knew. <br /><br />But also when Jesus said that He had voluntarily given up the privileges He had as the Son, i.e. "being in very nature God":<br /><br /><a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians+2:6-8&version=NIV" rel="nofollow">Php 2:6-8</a> (NIV) 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; 7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross! <br /><br />>Its plain to see that Father and Son are separate. <br /><br />Agreed. The Father and Son ARE separate. <br /><br />>Even when Jesus was baptized, Jehovah announced that This is my son, <br /><br />Agreed. But if Jesus is the Son of Jehovah God the Father, then Jesus is Jehovah God the Son. A Son has the same nature as His Father.<br /><br />>why would god confuse us if he wamts us to find our way back to him. <br /><br />God DOES NOT "confuse us". The Bible is VERY clear that Jesus is Jehovah God the Son, come in the flesh. Work through my post "<a href="http://jesusisyhwh.blogspot.com.au/2012/12/jesus-is-jehovah.html" rel="nofollow">Jesus IS Jehovah!</a>."<br /><br />The confusion is caused by men, like the leaders of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, who refuse to accept what the Bible CLEARLY says.<br /><br />Stephen E. Jones<br />-------------------------------<br /><b>Comments</b> are moderated. Those I consider off-topic, offensive or sub-standard will not appear. I reserve the right to respond to any comment as a separate blog post.Stephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574858940069385599.post-59331349892716817152013-03-01T19:01:10.434+08:002013-03-01T19:01:10.434+08:00Jesus cannot be Jehovah. If this were true the bib...Jesus cannot be Jehovah. If this were true the bible wouldn't make sense. Matt 24:36 talks about the end of the world, and that no-one knows the day or the hour, not the Angels in heaven, not the SON but only the Father. Its plain to see that Father and Son are separate. Even when Jesus was baptized, Jehovah announced that This is my son, why would god confuse us if he wamts us to find our way back to him. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574858940069385599.post-45129487684007054682011-09-12T17:37:33.713+08:002011-09-12T17:37:33.713+08:00Anonymous
>Jesus is not Jehovah. Read Psalms 1...Anonymous<br /><br />>Jesus is not Jehovah. Read Psalms 110:1. Jehovah is talking to Jesus. ...<br /><br />Thanks for your comment. I have fallen months behind in my replies, but I hope to catch up with my replies to all my comments (or at least the better ones) in the coming school holidays in October (I work as a relief, aka substitute high school teacher).<br /><br />Stephen E. JonesStephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574858940069385599.post-60614819237101637792011-09-12T09:44:09.881+08:002011-09-12T09:44:09.881+08:00Jesus is not Jehovah. Read Psalms 110:1. Jehovah i...Jesus is not Jehovah. Read Psalms 110:1. Jehovah is talking to Jesus. Read Psalms 2:2. The anointed one is Jesus and it says "Jehovah and his anointed one" thus Jehovah and Jesus. Read Isaiah 61:1 Jehovah is anointing Jesus.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574858940069385599.post-28867840848870795662010-05-19T18:47:53.255+08:002010-05-19T18:47:53.255+08:00Anonymous
>Both the words and actions attribut...Anonymous<br /><br />>Both the words and actions attributed to Jesus Christ convince me Jesus is not Jehovah God. <br /><br />Thanks for your comment. Because you raised a number of points, my reply would be too long for a comment. <br /><br />Also, it would be seen by few readers as a comment under this 2008 post. <br /><br />Therefore, I will reply in a separate new blog post. It should be in the next week, but as I am very busy right now, it might be longer.<br /><br />StephenStephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574858940069385599.post-4134163187423527412010-05-19T07:27:03.560+08:002010-05-19T07:27:03.560+08:00There exist many apparent contradictions in the Bi...There exist many apparent contradictions in the Bible, this is one. Is Jesus God or not? I prefer to rely on the words identified as spoken by Jesus Christ himself. Both the words and actions attributed to Jesus Christ convince me Jesus is not Jehovah God. They are two seperate beings with the same unity of purpose. This is a very important distinction as the first commandment admonishes worship the one true God alone. Satan wished equivalence in worship to Jehovah and is damned for all time. There is only one God and Jesus says so, repeatedly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574858940069385599.post-23197526675341293252009-12-16T08:09:45.075+08:002009-12-16T08:09:45.075+08:00Anonymous
Thanks for your comment.
>Jesus is ...Anonymous<br /><br />Thanks for your comment.<br /><br />>Jesus is Jehovah. Jesus is the human form of God on earth. <br /><br />Agreed. Jesus of the New Testament is the incarnate YHWH of the Old Testament. For example, Jesus Himself claimed to be "I AM" (<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jn%208:24,58&version=NIV" rel="nofollow">Jn 8:24,58</a>) which is the Name that YHWH claimed for Himself alone (<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ex%203:14;Dt%2032:39;Isa%2041:4;%2043:10;%2046:4;%2052:6&version=NIV" rel="nofollow">Ex 3:14; Dt 32:39; Isa 41:4; 43:10; 46:4; 52:6</a>). And John in <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jn%2012:39-41&version=NIV" rel="nofollow">Jn 12:39-41</a> states that "Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus' glory and spoke about him" when the quote is from <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa%206:1-10&version=NIV" rel="nofollow">Isa 6:1-10</a> where Isaiah saw YHWH's glory!<br /><br />>The Trinity outlines this, showing that God, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus are one entity, but three separate parts. <br /><br />Agreed, except that "parts" is not the right word, since God is Spirit (<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jn%204:24&version=NIV" rel="nofollow">Jn 4:24</a>) and spirits don't have parts. The better words to use to describe the Trinity are "one God in three Persons."<br /><br />>God, the Almighty Father, Jesus, the Son and Savior, and the Holy Spirit (self-explanatory).<br /><br />Agreed. Except that Jesus is also called "the Almighty" in <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev%201:7-8&version=NIV" rel="nofollow">Rev 1:7-8</a>, i.e. "the one who is to come" is "the Almighty" (v.8). But the Father is not coming - it is Jesus, who was "pierced" who is coming (v.7). <br /><br />Stephen E. JonesStephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574858940069385599.post-83201922250283921572009-12-16T06:47:48.628+08:002009-12-16T06:47:48.628+08:00Jesus is Jehovah. Jesus is the human form of God o...Jesus is Jehovah. Jesus is the human form of God on earth. The Trinity outlines this, showing that God, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus are one entity, but three separate parts. God, the Almighty Father, Jesus, the Son and Savior, and the Holy Spirit (self-explanatory).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574858940069385599.post-64873684905683482582009-07-22T07:47:31.320+08:002009-07-22T07:47:31.320+08:00Anonymous
>Jehovah ... created Jesus ... toget...Anonymous<br /><br />>Jehovah ... created Jesus ... together they made the earth. <br /><br />The Watchtower's own <i>New World Translation</i> disagrees with you:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.watchtower.org/bible/isa/chapter_044.htm#bk24" rel="nofollow">Isaiah 44:24</a> (NWT): "This is what Jehovah has said ... : `I, Jehovah, am doing everything, stretching out the heavens BY MYSELF, laying out the earth. WHO WAS WITH ME?'"<br /><br />This clearly teaches that Jehovah <i>by Himself</i> created the heavens and the earth, and there was <i>no one with Him</i> doing it.<br /><br />Also in <a href="http://www.watchtower.org/bible/isa/chapter_045.htm#bk12" rel="nofollow">Isaiah 45:12</a> (NWT) Jehovah says: "I MYSELF have made the earth ... I—MY OWN HANDS have stretched out the heavens ..." <br /><br />Jehovah would be LYING here if in fact He ONLY created Jesus and it was JESUS' hands that ACTUALLY created the universe (as the Watchtower claims). <br /><br />So either: 1) Jesus <i>IS</i> Jehovah (which the Bible teaches He is - see my series "<a href="http://jesusisyhwh.blogspot.com/2009/01/jesus-is-jehovah-in-new-testament-index.html" rel="nofollow">Jesus is Jehovah in the New Testament</a>"); or 2) Jesus DID NOT together with Jehovah make the universe (as the Watchtower teaches).<br /><br />Your choice: believe the Bible OR the Watchtower.<br /><br />Stephen E. JonesStephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574858940069385599.post-25586288166713300042009-07-22T00:21:25.219+08:002009-07-22T00:21:25.219+08:00Jehovah IS absolutely the almighty God, then he cr...Jehovah IS absolutely the almighty God, then he created Jesus, God's only begotten son, together they made the earth. Satan the devil tricked Eve into eating the fruit and Adam ate which he was given. so to level out the playing field, so that us humans will have another chance at living forever on earth, Jehovah put Jesus inside Mary. Throughout Jesus' life he taught about his FATHER which would be Jehovah God, and his FATHER'S upcoming kingdom, so we may have faith to see our loved ones again. When ever Jesus did a miracle he always called upon his FATHER, Jehovah God. Before Jesus died as a perfect human on earth, also as Jehovah God's only begotten son he prayed to Jehovah, he prayed so hard he started sweating blood. After Jesus died Jehovah made Jesus' bones disappear.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574858940069385599.post-7706663742841900082009-02-24T10:52:00.000+09:002009-02-24T10:52:00.000+09:00AngelicaCould you please put your comment through ...Angelica<BR/><BR/>Could you please put your comment through a spell-checker and send it again?<BR/><BR/>I don't mind the odd spelling mistake but the spelling and syntax of your comment is so bad that I have trouble understanding it.<BR/><BR/>I have a policy that: "Comments are moderated. Those I consider ... sub-standard will not appear." <BR/><BR/>So I am deleting your comment as "sub-standard".<BR/><BR/>Stephen E. JonesStephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574858940069385599.post-68604036393610435512009-02-24T10:00:00.000+09:002009-02-24T10:00:00.000+09:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574858940069385599.post-44348715647612877362008-02-02T06:36:00.000+09:002008-02-02T06:36:00.000+09:00TJ>.... Thus Jesus acts as Jehovah's agent of salv...TJ<BR/><BR/>>.... Thus Jesus acts as Jehovah's agent of salvation and properly acquires the title of "savior", just as Ehud and Othniel did. Therefore, Ehud, Othniel, and Jesus are saviors in the same sense, i.e. they all carried out acts of salvation directed by Jehovah. ...<BR/><BR/>After I posted my last response, I realised I had not respond to this point, specifically, so I will tidy that point up.<BR/><BR/>That God the Father works through Jesus in salvation, does not thereby mean that Jesus is not Himself God (i.e. God the Son) and Saviour, as I said I will show in my second post.<BR/><BR/>So your argument about Jehovah working through human saviours is inconclusive and therefore irrelevant, which is why I initially chopped it out as not worth discussing. <BR/><BR/>The problem is that you are still jumping the gun in not waiting to see my full argument, which was originally in a single post, but I had to split it into two because the amount of quotes needed to document my argument meant that the original post wa too long.<BR/><BR/>Stephen E. JonesStephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574858940069385599.post-23055367212437486192008-02-02T05:41:00.000+09:002008-02-02T05:41:00.000+09:00Hi Stephen,You seem to be getting irritated. I hav...Hi Stephen,<BR/><BR/>You seem to be getting irritated. I have tried to read your words very carefully and I did in fact note that you said that Jesus and Jehovah were saviors in the "same sense". I actually quoted that in my first comment.<BR/><BR/>The problem however, is that even you quote verses, such as Jude 25 which show God (Jehovah) saves <I>through</I> Jesus. Thus Jesus acts as Jehovah's agent of salvation and properly acquires the title of "savior", just as Ehud and Othniel did. Therefore, Ehud, Othniel, and Jesus are saviors in the same sense, i.e. they all carried out acts of salvation directed by Jehovah.<BR/><BR/>And no, I am not suggesting that Ehud and Othniel are <I>exactly</I> like Jesus, as in saving all of mankind. Jesus' act of salvation was the greatest of all time and everlasting life can only be attained <I>through</I> him, making him "the <B>Chief</B> Agent of life". (Acts 3:15) How could Jesus be the <I>Chief</I> Agent unless there are other agents of life, other saviors in the same sense?<BR/><BR/>As to the rest of your comments, honestly, this is all a bit strange to me. My question was as simplified as I could make it, and it is a natural question to ask. I'm not sure why that would <I>require</I> a long, long answer in order to give a 'proper' response. Didn't Jesus often answer concisely and weren't his answers 'proper'?<BR/><BR/>I have read some of your other writings that you are directing me to, but again, these too are missing important counterexamples which make your arguments weak in my view, but I haven't mentioned these precisely <I>because</I> I have simplified my question as much as possible.<BR/><BR/>I guess I would find a simple, short discussion of what you have already written as more beneficial than reading one or two long answers that contain (what I find to be) weak spots that overlook counterexamples. But it seems that you have created some very strict guidelines and are committed to keeping them, which I will respect.<BR/><BR/>Thank you very much for your time.<BR/><BR/>TJAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574858940069385599.post-33122310482444866732008-02-01T08:01:00.000+09:002008-02-01T08:01:00.000+09:00TJ>Without dealing with instances in the Bible whe...TJ<BR/><BR/>>Without dealing with instances in the Bible where others are referred to as saviors, any answer you give would seem lacking to me.<BR/><BR/>Please read my words <I>carefully</I>. In the first part of my two-part post, I pointed out, and documented with verses and quotes on those verses, that <I>both</I> Jehovah and Jesus claim to be the <I>only</I> Saviour, in the <I>same</I> sense.<BR/><BR/>So it is <I>irrelevant</I> that others in the Bible are called "saviour". They are not, and do not claim to be, saviours <I>in the same sense</I> as Jehovah and Jesus.<BR/><BR/>In the second part of my post, I will provide even more verses and quotes on those verses, that Jesus is <I>both</I> God <I>and</I> Saviour.<BR/><BR/>>But it was and is not my intention for you to take hours to answer my simple questions, though I appreciate your effort. <BR/><BR/>You miss my point that even "simple questions" (and yours were <I>not</I>) that take minutes to ask can take hours (or even days), to answer properly. <BR/><BR/>>Perhaps you'd be willing to discuss a few of these things more spontaneously via email?<BR/><BR/>Sorry, but the medium would not make any difference, to the time problem. Besides, I have <A HREF="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CreationEvolutionDesign/message/1" REL="nofollow">a long-standing policy going back to 2001</A> on my now-terminated Creation/ Evolution Yahoo discussion group, that I do not get involved in private discussions.<BR/><BR/>If you read my blog, over time the important questions will be addressed. I recently posted on the Watchtower's claim that <A HREF="http://jesusisyhwh.blogspot.com/2008/01/is-jesus-christ-michael-archangel-1.html" REL="nofollow">Jesus is Michael the archangel </A>, and as you know because you commented on it, I am working through the Watchtower's book, "<A HREF="http://jesusisyhwh.blogspot.com/2008/01/what-does-bible-really-teach-ch-1a.html" REL="nofollow">What Does the Bible <I>Really</I> Teach?</A>"<BR/><BR/>I have also in the pipeline a post documenting the Watchtower's false prophecy that the generation alive in 1914, and old enough to understand what was happening in 1914 (which means they would have to have been born 10-15 years earlier, and so would be 104-109 year-olds today) would not pass away until the end of the present world-system occurred at the War of Armageddon.<BR/><BR/>Now this is definitely my last comment to you under this first of my two-part post, You may now have the last word under this comment. <BR/><BR/>You are also free to comment under the second part post, since each blog post stands alone. <BR/><BR/>Stephen E. JonesStephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574858940069385599.post-44104971398891283242008-02-01T00:10:00.000+09:002008-02-01T00:10:00.000+09:00Hi Stephen,I can understand that you don't want to...Hi Stephen,<BR/><BR/>I can understand that you don't want to get into a debate, but I hoped that you'd be willing to be a bit flexible in answering counterexamples to your position. Without dealing with instances in the Bible where <I>others</I> are referred to as saviors, any answer you give would seem lacking to me.<BR/><BR/>But it was and is not my intention for you to take hours to answer my simple questions, though I appreciate your effort. Perhaps you'd be willing to discuss a few of these things more spontaneously via email?<BR/><BR/>Thanks,<BR/>TJAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574858940069385599.post-4376377494614104492008-01-31T23:39:00.000+09:002008-01-31T23:39:00.000+09:00TJ>My next question ... Thanks for your patience w...TJ<BR/><BR/>>My next question ... Thanks for your patience with me.<BR/><BR/>Sorry, but I simply do not have the time to respond to your further questions on this particular topic. There is a time-asymmetry to questions and answers: A person can ask a question in 5 minutes, that takes me 5 hours to answer thoroughly.<BR/><BR/>I will in my two-part post, <I>fully</I> answer your original question, which is the topic of these two posts.<BR/><BR/>If then you chose not to accept my answer, that is your privilege, and your responsibility. <BR/><BR/>As stated in <A HREF="http://jesusisyhwh.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow">my policies on my front page</A>, and at the end of <A HREF="http://jesusisyhwh.blogspot.com/2007/12/introduction-to-my-jesus-is-jehovah-jij.html" REL="nofollow">my introductory post to JiJ </A>, I have neither the time nor inclination for debates (after my 11+ years debating creation/evolution on Internet discussion groups). <BR/><BR/>Multiple comments and responses to a blog post would be a debate, so I have limited the number of comments that each person can make to each blog post of mine.<BR/><BR/>That is, each person can post a comment to each blog post of mine. I usually will then respond only once to that comment. That person then can have the last word in a second comment. But then comments are closed to that person under that blog post.<BR/><BR/>Of course you are welcome to comment on any other blog posts of mine, but then same policy applies to each one.<BR/><BR/>Stephen E. JonesStephen E. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16183223752386599799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6574858940069385599.post-59171476697006376462008-01-31T22:47:00.000+09:002008-01-31T22:47:00.000+09:00Hello Stephen,Thank you for your answer and I look...Hello Stephen,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for your answer and I look forward to reading your second post. <BR/><BR/>My next question, and you may be planning to answer this in your next post, pertains to your dismissal of the possibility that Jehovah and Jesus are two separate saviors. You said, "both Jehovah in the Old Testament and Jesus in the New Testament claim (or it is claimed of each) to be the only Savior, in the same sense."<BR/><BR/>I would argue that Jehovah is the source of salvation, while Jesus is the agent <I>through whom</I> he accomplishes that salvation. Thus they can each properly be termed "Savior", but they played different roles.<BR/><BR/>We have examples of Jehovah 'saving' people by means of appointed agents in the Old Testament, effectively making those agents saviors themselves:<BR/><BR/>"And the sons of Israel began to call to Jehovah for aid. Then Jehovah raised <B>a savior</B> up for the sons of Israel that he might save them, Othniel the son of Kenaz, the younger brother of Caleb." (Judges 3:9)<BR/><BR/>"And the sons of Israel began to call to Jehovah for aid. So Jehovah raised up for them <B>a savior</B>, Ehud the son of Gera, a Benjamite, a left-handed man." (Judges 3"15)<BR/><BR/>So isn't it true that Jehovah acted as a Savior for Israel in these instances by 'raising up' strong men to deliver them? And weren't the men he acted through also saviors?<BR/><BR/>If that is true, and we don't conclude that Othniel is Jehovah, nor Ehud is Jehovah, though elsewhere it is said that "besides [Jehovah] there is no savior", why must we conclude that Jesus is Jehovah when it is explicitly said that God saved <I>through</I> him? (Jude 25)<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your patience with me.<BR/>TJAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com