Sunday, December 30, 2007

Introduction to my Jesus is Jehovah! blog (JiJ)

My name is Stephen E. Jones. I am an evangelical Christian lay-

[Above (click to enlarge): Christ Pantocrator icon, St. Catherine's Monastery, Mt. Sinai. Pantokrator is the Greek translation of the Hebrew El Shaddai (God Almighty). "Early Christians ascribed this title to Jesus of Nazareth." - Wikipedia]

man in my 60s. I have two other blogs, CreationEvolutionDesign (CED) and The Shroud of Turin (TSoT). As I mentioned in my post, "Jesus is Jehovah!" to my CED blog, a JW elder named Charlie came to my door in September 2007 and we had a comparatively friendly discussion.

I remembered that nearly 40 years ago, when I was a new Christian, I was challenged to a lunchtime Bible study by an older workmate who was a JW, and I showed him from his own New World Translation (NWT) Bible, by comparing Jn 12:39-41 NWT with Isa 6:10 NWT that Jesus was Jehovah. He promised to get back to me with the answer, but he never did.

So I offered to prepare for Charlie a list of verses from his own NWT to show him that Jesus is Jehovah. Charlie returned alone a few days later and gave me a new, 1984 edition of the NWT.

[Right: The New World Translation (NWT) Bible that Charlie gave me.]

So I began in late September for my discussions with Charlie (and any JW who comes to my door), a one-page, double-sided, pamphlet titled, "Jesus is Jehovah: In the New World Translation." This was completed in December and contains more than 200 different verses from the NWT (and I could have added many more) showing that Jehovah of the Old Testament is the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ of the New Testament.

Charlie returned in November with another elder, and I discussed with them the then first two points on my pamphlet.

Rev 1:17-18; 2:8 & 22:12-13,16 NWT (my emphases) that Jesus is "the First and the Last," yet in Isa 44:6 Jehovah says that He is "the first and ... the last"!

I then showed them Rev 22:12-13, 16, 20 NWT where Jesus is "the Alpha and the Omega" (the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet),

[Left: Alpha and Omega, About.com]

yet in Rev 1:8; 21:6 NWT it is Jehovah who is "the Alpha and the Omega." They tried to argue that there were two "the first" and two "the last," and two "the Alpha and the Omega," but I told them that is self-contradictory, since by definition there cannot be two the first and two the last, nor two the Alpha and the Omega. So the only viable explanation left is that Jesus is Jehovah!

I have been praying for Charlie since September and in early December he came to my door alone and I invited him in and we had had a cordial discussion over a cup of coffee. I showed Charlie two different points on my growing pamphlet which also showed that Jesus is Jehovah.

The first was that Jesus is called "God" (with a capital "G") in the NWT. In Mt 1:23 NWT and Jn 20:28 NWT, Jesus is called "the God" (Gk. ho Theos. See also Tit 2:13 & 2Pet 1:1 as can be checked on the Interlinear Bible). Yet "Jehovah is the [true] God; there is no other " (Dt 4:35,39. Cf. 1Ki 8:60; Isa 45:5,18,21).

I then discussed with Charlie the then second point on my pamphlet, where the NWT reveals (or fails to conceal!) that Jesus is Jehovah God! Paul in Eph 4:8 NWT quotes Ps 68:18 NWT, "When he ascended on high he carried away captives" applying it to Christ. Yet that OT passage is speaking of "Yah God" (i.e. "Jehovah God" - Ps 89:8; 106:48; 146:10 NWT) having "ascended on high" and "carried away captives."

Since September I have downloaded and listened to and/or watched about 5 gigabytes of audios and videos about JW-ism, from sites including: MM Outreach and Tower to Truth Ministries. Most of these were testimonies by former JWs and talks on erroneous Watchtower teachings. Since September I have also bought, or have on order, many books on JW-ism, including books by the Watchtower organization. I have also just concluded a mini-debate with JWs on Shazoolo's YouTube site. All this has given me a deeper appreciation of how tragic is the situation of the average JW, and with that a new love for JWs.

On my other two blogs I am writing outlines of two books, "Problems of Evolution" and "The Shroud of Turin: Burial Sheet of Jesus?" About two weeks ago I decided to expand my pamphlet into a book also called, "Jesus is Jehovah!: In the New World Translation," although when published it may have a different subtitle. So today I decided to create this my third blog to write the outline of that third book, and also to comment on other Jehovah's Witness related matters from an evangelical Christian perspective. I have no set time-frame when I will finish these books. For me the enjoyment is in researhing and writing them!

Comments are welcome, but my policy on this blog, as on my other two blogs, is to not get involved in extended debate, so I will usually respond only once to each comment. If anyone wants to contact me privately by email, my address can be found on my home page below (linked to my name). However, as per my long-standing policy on my other two blogs, I reserve the right to post my replies to this blog, minus the sender's personal identifying information.

PS: The following are some quotes relating to the above points (my emphasis bold).

Stephen E. Jones.

My other blogs: CreationEvolutionDesign & TheShroudofTurin


"[8]I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. [9]I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ... . [16]And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. [17]And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last (Revelation 1: 8, 9, 16, 17. Verse numbers added).

These particular verses from the book of Revelation constitute one of the major pitfalls to the Christology of Jehovah's Witnesses. The reason for this is the fact that in Revelation 1:8 and 9 the Alpha and Omega is identified with Jehovah, whereas in verses 16 and 17 the Alpha and the Omega is specifically referred to as the Lord Jesus Christ. At the same time Jehovah is distinctly meant in the context as any linkage of the four verses together will quickly reveal to the interested student. Jehovah's Witnesses themselves translate Revelation 1:8 and 9 using the divine name Jehovah, whereas in Revelation 1:16 and 17 they are particularly silent when the first and the last (Alpha and Omega) is identified as the risen victorious Son of God - a blow indeed to their Arianism, a theology which would reduce the Son of God to the role of a created being. In accordance with many passages of the Old Testament it cannot be denied by the Witnesses that Jehovah claims to be `the first and the last,' and asserts Himself that besides Him `there is no other God' (Isa. 43:10). We therefore see that if Jehovah Himself is the first and the last and the Alpha and Omega of Revelation 1:8 and 9, either there are two firsts and lasts (Rev. 1:16 and 17) or the texts are speaking of the same Being, i.e., the Triune God! Against such an argument, Jehovah's Witnesses have no defense, for Jesus Christ is clearly in these contexts revealed to be the first and the last, or Jehovah the Son, the second person of the Trinity, our coming King and their judge." (Martin, W.R., 1957, "Jehovah's Witnesses," Bethany House: Minneapolis MN, Reprinted, 1969, pp.40-41. Emphasis & ellipses original).

"The literal translation of Hebrews 13:8 reads, `Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and into the everlasting,' which gives added proof to His everlasting heritage and coexistence with the Father. But let its bear in mind that Jehovah's Witnesses reject the doctrine of the triune Deity and condemn it as `of the devil' so the deity of Christ is not accepted by them. However, unknowingly, they have affirmed it beyond doubt, for in the NWT ... they refer the reader to Revelation 1:17 in cross reference to Hebrews 13:8 and irrevocably declare that the Christ of Hebrews 13:8 is the `First and the Last' of Revelation 1:17. If Christ is the First and the Last in Revelation 1:17, He has to be the Alpha and Omega of Revelation 1:8 and by their own rendition, 1:8 reveals `Jehovah God' (NWT) . Either there are two Firsts and Lasts, which is impossible since Jehovah affirms that He alone is the First and the Last (Is 48:12), or they are identical, and this we know to be true for Jesus claimed to be the `I AM' (Jn 8:58)." (Martin, W.R. & Klann, N., 1981, "Jehovah of the Watchtower," [1953], Bethany House Publishers: Bloomington MN, Revised, pp.54-55. Emphasis original).

"Rev 1:8, `I am Alpha and Omega [Greek-First and Last-A to Z] says JEHOVAH GOD, the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty' (NWT).

In the seventh, eighth, seventeenth, and eighteenth verses of the first chapter of Revelation [Rev 1:7,8,17,18], a unique and wonderful truth is again affirmed, namely, that Jesus Christ and Jehovah God are of the same `substance,' hence coequal, coexistent and coeternal, in short, one nature in its fullest sense. We shall pursue that line of thought at length in substantiating this doctrine of Scripture. Comparing Matthew 24:30 with Revelation 1:7, it is inescapably evident that Jesus Christ is the `One coming with clouds' in both the references mentioned.

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory (Mt 24:30, KJV).

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen (Rev 1:7, KJV) .

Following this train of thought, we find that Jehovah declares, in Isaiah 44:6, that He alone is the First and the Last and the only God, which eliminates forever any confusion as to there being two Firsts and Lasts." (Martin & Klann, 1981, p.57. Emphasis original).

"Recently, the Jehovah's Witnesses made another attempt to explain who the Alpha and Omega is, and accidentally proved that Jesus is Jehovah! In an Awake article (August 22, 1978, p. 28), entitled, `Who Is Alpha and Omega?', they wrote,

`Finally, at Revelation 22:12, 13, we read: `Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is. I am Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.' This quotation appears among others that are ascribed to an angel and to Jesus Christ.... Since the context does not necessitate our attributing the words of Revelation 22:12, 13 either to an angel or Jesus, they could have originated with another speaker. Consistent with the rest of the Book of Revelation, `the Alpha and the Omega' must be the Almighty God.'

Six weeks after the article was published in Awake, in which the Jehovah's Witnesses say the speaker of Revelation 22:12-13 is the Almighty God, they gave Jesus credit for being the speaker! They wrote,

`Also, in his final revelation concerning `the things that must shortly take place,' Jesus again stresses the suddenness with which he comes: ... `Look! I am coming quickly' ... `Look! I am coming quickly' (Rev 22:7, 12, 20). In response to these last expressions of our Master, surely each one of us joins with the apostle John in saying: `Amen! Come, Lord Jesus' ` (The Watchtower, October 1, 1978, p.15).

Obviously, Jesus and the Almighty God are the same, according to The Watchtower!" (Martin & Klann, 1981, pp.59-60. Emphasis original).

"It was while working as receptionist that I first met Mr. Walter R. Martin, author of The Kingdom of the Cults, an aid to anyone involved with the cults. Unknown to Mr. Martin, in spite of our confrontation he had planted seeds of truth that helped me in the understanding of Christian theology. He asked me to read Isaiah 44:6 where Yahweh declares that He alone is the First and Last and the only God, which eliminates forever any confusion as to there being two Firsts and Lasts. Since Yahweh is the only God, then how can the logos be `a god,' a lesser god than Yahweh, as Jehovah's Witnesses declare? Revelatio n 1:17, 18 and 2:8 add further weight to the deity of Jesus, for they reveal Him as the First and the Last, who died and lives forever. In Revelation 22:13 Jesus said: `I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.' I had to accept this or deny the authority of the Scriptures. We met twenty years later and he was happy to hear of my coming out of the Society." (Cetnar, W.I., "An Inside View of the Watchtower Society," in Cetnar, W.I. & Cetnar, J., "Questions for Jehovah's Witnesses," [1983], Bill & Joan Cetnar: Kunkletown PA, Reprinted, 2001, pp.69-70. Emphasis original).

"In the New Testament, there are passages in which what is said in the Old Testament concerning Jehovah is applied to Jesus Christ. Compare Numbers 14:2; 21:5, 6; Ps. 95:9, with 1 Cor. 10:9. Here the tempting of Jehovah is the tempting of Christ. ... In Heb. 1:10, 11, what is attributed to Jehovah in Ps. 102:26, is attributed to Christ. In John 12:40, 41, it is asserted that the language of Isaiah (6:9, 10) concerning Jehovah refers to Jesus Christ. Isa. 45:23, compared with Rom. 14:10, 11 ... shows that the judgment-seat of God is the judgment-seat of Christ. ... Joel 2:32 compared with Rom. 10:13, proves that the name of Jehovah is the name of Christ. In Eph. 4:8, 9, Christ gives the gifts that in Ps. 68:18 are given by Jehovah." (Shedd, W.G.T., 1888, "Dogmatic Theology," Zondervan: Grand Rapids MI, Reprinted, 1969, Vol. I, p.315).

"Old Testament descriptions of God are applied to him. This application to Christ of titles and names exclusively appropriated to God is inexplicable, if Christ was not regarded as being himself God. The peculiar awe with which the term 'Jehovah' was set apart by a nation of strenuous monotheists as the sacred and incommunicable name of the one self-existent and covenant-keeping God forbids the belief that the Scripture writers could have used it as the designation of a subordinate and created being. Mat. 3:3 = `Make ye ready the way of the Lord'-is a quotation from Is. 40:3 = `Prepare ye ... the way of Jehovah.' John 12:41 = `These things said Isaiah, because he saw his glory; and he spake of him' [i. e., Christ] - refers to Is. 6:1 - `In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne;' So in Eph. 4:7, 8 - `measure of the gift of Christ ... led captivity captive `-is an application to Christ of what is said of Jehovah in Ps. 68:18. In 1 Pet. 3:15, moreover, we read ... `sanctify in your hearts Christ as Lord'; here the apostle borrows his language from Is. 8:13, where we read: `Jehovah of hosts, him shall ye sanctify.' When we remember that, with the Jews, God's covenant-title was so sacred that for ... Jehovah there was always substituted ...Adonai, in order to avoid pronunciation of the great Name, it seems the more remarkable that the Greek equivalent of `Jehovah' should have been so constantly used of Christ. Cf. Rom. 10:9 = `confess ... Jesus as Lord'; 1 Cor. 12:3 = `no man can say, Jesus is Lord, but in the Holy Spirit' We must remember also the indignation of the Jews at Christ's assertion of his equality and oneness with the Father. [Jn 10:31-33] .... Yet James, the strongest of Hebrews, in his Epistle uses the word `Lord' freely and alternately of God the Father [Jas 1:7; 3:9; 4:10,15; 5:4,10-11,14-15] and of Christ the Son [Jas 1:1; 2:1; 5:7-8]. This would have been impossible if James had not believed in the community of essence between the Son and the Father." (Strong, A.H., 1907, "Systematic Theology," Judson Press: Valley Forge PA, Twenty-fifth printing, 1967, p.309).

"The doctrine of the deity of Christ is crucial to the Christian faith. `What think you of Christ?' is the paramount question of life (cf. Matt. 16:15; 22:42). Surely Jesus Christ is the greatest of all men, but he is infinitely more than mere man. It can be demonstrated that he is God in several ways.... His identification with the Old Testament Jehovah. Things that are in the Old Testament said of Jehovah are in the New Testament said of Christ. He was the creator (Ps. 102:24-27; Heb. 1:10-12), was seen by Isaiah (Isa. 6:1-4; John 12:41), was to be preceded by a forerunner (Isa. 40:3; Matt. 3:3), disciplines his people (Num. 21:6f.; 1 Cor. 10:9), is to be regarded as holy (Isa. 8:13; 1 Pet. 3:15), is to lead captivity captive (Ps. 68:18; Eph. 4:8), and is to be the object of faith (Joel 2:32; Rom. 10:9, 13)." (Thiessen, H.C. & Doerksen, V.D., 1979, "Lectures in Systematic Theology," [1949], Eerdmans: Grand Rapids MI, Revised, pp.92-93. My emphasis).

"JESUS' IDENTITY WITH YAHWEH/JEHOVAH The NT attributes to Jesus many of the perfections of Yahweh (or, Jehovah), the creator/redeemer God of the OT. There are seven main points of identity. God's name When the OT was translated into Greek in the 2nd and 3rd centuries BC (the Septuagint), the sacred name of God, YHWH, usually rendered Yahweh or Jehovah, was translated by the Greek word Kyrios (Lord); there are approaching 7,000 instances of this. This sacred and exalted title was attributed directly to Jesus (Rom. 10:9; 1 Cor. 12:3; Phil. 2:11; etc., cf. also Lord of lords, 1 Tim. 6:15; Rev. 17:14; 19:16). Indeed the confession Jesus is Lord is probably the earliest confession of faith (Rom. 10:9; 1 Cor. 12:3; 2 Cor. 4:5). On several occasions NT writers apply OT passages concerning Yahweh directly to Jesus (Acts 2:34f.; Rom. 8:34; Heb. 10:12f.; 1 Pet. 3:22 apply Ps. 110:1. Rom. 10:13 applies Joel 2:32. Phil. 2:9-11 applies Is. 45:23. Jn. 12:41 applies Is. 6:10. Eph. 4:8 applies Ps. 68:18). These passages clearly identify Jesus with Yahweh. Another link is provided by self-designations of God appropriated by Jesus or referred to him. Supremely significant is the I AM (Ex. 3:14; cf. Jn. 8:58; 6:35; 8:12,24; 11:25; 14:6; 18:5f.; Mk. 14:62). Others are _bridegroom_ (Is. 62:5; Je. 2:2; Ezk. 16:8; cf. Mk. 2:19f.; Jn. 3:29; 2 Cor. 11:2; Rev. 19:7); shepherd (Pss. 23:1; 80:1; Is. 40:11; Ezk. 34:15; cf. Jn. 10:11-16; Heb. 13:10; 1 Pet. 2:25; 5:4); the first and the last (Is. 44:6; 48:12; cf. Rev. 2:8; 22:13)." (Milne, B., 1982, "Know the Truth: A Handbook of Christian Belief," Inter-Varsity Press: Leicester UK, Fifth printing, 1988, pp.129-130. Emphasis original).

15 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hi, thank you so much for your research in this area, I am really enjoying your BLOG keep up the good work. I like you have recently had a JW at my door and as a Christian I feel like we do need to share the Gospel with them. I think many other Christians underestimate the extent of the false teaching and the fact that most witnesses are in a hopeless state and not assured of their salvation. Christians give up or dont even try to talk to them, why because we are afraid that they actually might know more about the bible than we do? So thank you so much for showing us the biblical responses we can give them. I pray that your work on this BLOG will lead to many people coming to know true salvation in and only in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Stephen E. Jones said...

Anonymous

>Hi, thank you so much for your research in this area, I am really enjoying your BLOG keep up the good work.

Thanks for your comment and encouragment, which is much appreciated.

>I like you have recently had a JW at my door and as a Christian I feel like we do need to share the Gospel with them.

It is important that we do. Many ex-JW testimonies on the Internet say that when Christians witnessed to them it impressed them greatly, because so few people at the doors they knocked on did.

>I think many other Christians underestimate the extent of the false teaching and the fact that most witnesses are in a hopeless state and not assured of their salvation.

Agreed. Until I listened to ex-JW testimonies, I did not realise how miserable and hopeless JWs were. They are literally enslaved. I now deeply pity them and love them, instead of being irritated and exasperated at their obtuseness, as I once was.

>Christians give up or dont even try to talk to them, why because we are afraid that they actually might know more about the bible than we do?

Probably it is mostly because whatever Christians say seems to make not the slightest difference to JWs. But it might also be fear at the JW's selective quoting of verses that seem to refute major Christian doctrines.

>So thank you so much for showing us the biblical responses we can give them.

Thanks. Over time I will try to cover most of the JW's errors. I am working on a post on whether Jesus was executed on a cross or a stake, which is appropriate before Easter.

>I pray that your work on this BLOG will lead to many people coming to know true salvation in and only in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Thanks very much. My JiJ blog is now averaging 24 visits a day, and I expect that some of them are: 1) JWs who might be considering leaving the Watchtower (WT); 2)non-JWs who are thinking of joining the WT; and 3) ex-JWs who are still confused by WT indoctrination and who may not yet be Christians. Prayer for the different needs of these three groups would be especially appreciated.

Stephen E. Jones

billphillips said...

Mr. Jones,

I've been looking over your blog, and it's great. I learned about the John 12:40-41/Isaiah 6:10 reference a month or two ago, and I had a chance to use it when a JW knocked on my door the other day. He kind of just changed the subject, but said he'll come back sometime. I hope he does.

Have you ever heard any of them respond to that?

Thanks,
Bill

Stephen E. Jones said...

Bill

>I've been looking over your blog, and it's great.

Thanks for your feedback, which is much appreciated.

>I learned about the John 12:40-41/Isaiah 6:10 reference a month or two ago, and I had a chance to use it when a JW knocked on my door the other day. He kind of just changed the subject, but said he'll come back sometime. I hope he does.

That's the right Christian attitude! The ex-JW Christians' testimonies on the Internet often say how they were affected by the few Christians who bothered to witness to JWs.

>Have you ever heard any of them respond to that?

No, I never have. The JW elder I have been meeting with just waved it off without considering it.

To him, and I presume to most JWs, Jn 12:39-41 = Isa 6:1-10 is just an anomaly they can ignore while focusing on the other verses that `prove' Jesus is just a created angel or `god'.

Still, if we can sow seeds of doubt in a JW's mind, like the above, he/she might start to wonder whether the Watchtower's teachings are wrong and Jesus really is God (i.e. *by nature* God, not God the Father).

If you feel able to do it (and don't do it otherwise) why not invite the JW to come back at a more convenient time (they have a time limit at your door) and go through those verses over a cup of coffee, while showing him genuine Christian love?

Stephen E. Jones

billphillips said...

Hello,

I would definitely like for him to come back. I've been learning a lot about them. I've tried to talk to other JWs who were on a time limit, but this guy stayed for at least an hour.

He mentioned that Jesus returned in 1914, and I didn't really know how to answer, but he left a little booklet, and I've studied up on why they believe that, and it's really quite an obvious error. I don't understand how they can deceive so many people so easily with such rotten doctrines. I wrote a little bit about the 1914 thing on my blog.

Thanks,
Bill

Stephen E. Jones said...

Bill

>He mentioned that Jesus returned in 1914, and I didn't really know how to answer, but he left a little booklet, and I've studied up on why they believe that, and it's really quite an obvious error.

The 1914 invisible return of Jesus is the JWs earliest doctrine. JW's founder Charles Taze Russell carried it over from his original Adventist background. Adventists like the SDAs believe it to this day. It grew out of the fact that originally the Adventists predicted that Jesus would return in 1874, but when that failed, some Adventists reinterpreted the Greek parousia "coming" or "presence" as only "presence." and predicted a visible return and end of the world in 1914. Then when 1914 came and went, the Adventists and JWs, reinterpreted 1914 as invisible presence.

But apart from: A) that being contradicted by verses that say the parousia will be:

1) visible: Mt 24:27 "For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming [parousia] of the Son of Man";

2) audible: 1Th 4:15-16 "According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming [parousia] of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise";

3) accompanied by all the angels, or all the OT and NT saints who had died, or both: 1Thess 3:13 "May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence [parousia] of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones";

4) followed by the resurrection of "the dead in Christ" (see above on 1Th 4:15-16);

5) and then by all Christians who are alive being "caught up … to meet the Lord in the air": 1Th 4:17 "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."

6) the destruction of Antichrist: 2Th 2:8: "And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming [parousia]

7) the destruction of the Universe: 2Pet 3:12 "as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming [parousia]That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat."

B) there are other Gk words used to describe Jesus' return, that do not mean "presence" and, apart from their very definitions, make it clear it will not be invisible:

1) apokalupsis "disclosure," "appearing," "revealed," [apokalupsis]; 2Th 1:7 "and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed [apokalupsis] from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels."

and

2) epiphaneia, "a manifestation," "appearing," "brightness": Tit 2:13 " while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing [epiphaneia], of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,"

>I don't understand how they can deceive so many people so easily with such rotten doctrines.

The vast majority of JW's either grew up in it; or were Biblically illiterate. Either way, the are easily deceived because they don't know any better.

Also, once in, the Watchtower tries to prevent its members from learning about alternatives and criticisms of itself, under threat of disfellowshipping and then shunning by JW family and friends.

But most people are not deceived. JWs have to knock on thousands of doors to get one convert. And of those who are deceived, most eventually become un-deceived and leave the Watchtower:

"An even more extreme example of what might be called `masked churn' is the relatively tiny Jehovah's Witnesses, with a turnover rate of about two-thirds. That means that two-thirds of the people who told Pew they were raised Jehovah's Witnesses no longer are - yet the group attracts roughly the same number of converts. Notes Lugo, `No wonder they have to keep on knocking on doors." (Van Biema, D., "America's Unfaithful Faithful," TIME, February 25, 2008)

And even of those that stay in the Watchtower, it would be interesting to know how many are no longer deceived but remain in it because it is too costly (i.e. loss of JW family and friends, admitting that one has been conned and so has wasted one's life) to leave, or because one does not know of any alternatives (being brainwashed that the churches are all pagan).

>I wrote a little bit about the 1914 thing on my blog.

Congratulations on your blog Fisher of Men. And thanks for including my blog JiJ on your blogroll. I have added yours to mine.

I would encourage you to focus on JWs. The statistics above show it could be on the verge of collapse. The Internet represents a huge problem for such a long-standing print-oriented organisation like the Watchtower. It cannot prevent its existing and would-be members from reading quotes from the Watchtower's own literature that expose it as a false prophet and a false teacher.

Stephen E. Jones

Anonymous said...

Greetings,I am not JW but I read the bible and try to study it in a good way, have some questions for you,Please you can answer to my mail
clyde556@hotmail.com
Question A) if you say that Jesus is Jehovah, why does Jesus says on John 12:44 "When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me" So, Who sent Jesus? if he is Jehovah, did he send himself to earth?,

Question B) to whom did Jesus prayed on John 17:1-3 If he is Jehovah, did he prayed to himself?

Question C) When Stephen was dying, he said on ACTS 7:56 "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God." So he saw 2 persons, if Jesus Is Jehovah , shouldn't Stephen see only one person ? or three if you believe in trinity?

Question D) As far as I know , in order for us to be saved , Jesus had no only to come to earth but DIE, so only by DYING he will free us from sin , but on Habakkuk 1:12 says that God never dies " LORD, are you not from everlasting?
My God, my Holy One, you will never die"
But the bible said that Jesus died on Mathew 16:21.
So if Jesus never died then the bible is lying, is that possible?

Stephen E. Jones said...

Anonymous

>Greetings,I am not JW but I read the bible and try to study it in a good way, have some questions for you ...

Thanks for your questions. As it would be too complex to answer them in a comment under a 2007 post that few would probably see, I will answer them in a separate blog post, hopefully in the next few days.

Stephen E. Jones

Stephen E. Jones said...

Anonymous

>Thanks for your questions. ... I will answer them in a separate blog post, hopefully in the next few days.

I have now answered your questions in "Re: `So, Who sent Jesus? if he is Jehovah, did he send himself to earth?', etc"

Stephen E. Jones

IwateBuddy said...

I had never really discussed Christianity with a JW until last year when I found myself unemployed with time on my hands. One knocked on my door and I agreed to study with him. After about three months of study I started to realize that Jesus was a lot more than who I thought he was! That's when I found your blog and the pieces fell in place. Jesus is Jehovah makes perfect sense.

Stephen E. Jones said...

>IwateBuddy

Thanks for your comment.

>I had never really discussed Christianity with a JW until last year ... After about three months of study I started to realize that Jesus was a lot more than who I thought he was!

I assume you mean that the Watchtower's claim that Jesus is Michael the archangel:

"Who Is Michael the Archangel? ... the Bible indicates that Michael is another name for Jesus Christ, before and after his life on earth." ("What Does the Bible Really Teach?," Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, 2005, p.218. Emphasis original).

made you realise that Jesus was much more than that, and caused you to dig deeper into the Bible, where you found that Jesus of the New Testament is indeed Jehovah of the Old Testament, come in the flesh?

See my posts: "Jesus is Jehovah!" on my CED blog before I started this one, and my series: "Jesus is Jehovah in the New Testament" on this blog.

>That's when I found your blog and the pieces fell in place. Jesus is Jehovah makes perfect sense.

The point is that "Jesus is Jehovah" is what the Bible teaches, whether or not we think it makes "perfect sense" (although it does).

Perhaps you mean that "Jesus is Jehovah makes perfect sense" of the Bible? For example it helps tie the Old Testament and the New Testament closer together, because Yahweh who appeared to Moses as "I AM" (Ex 3:14) and made the Old Covenant with the Jews, is the pre-incarnate Jesus ("Yahweh is salvation"-Mt 1:21) the "I AM" (Jn 8:58) who made the New Covenant (Jer 31:31; Lk 22:20; 1Cor 11:25; Heb 8:8,13; 9:15; 12:24) with both Jews and Gentiles.

Stephen E. Jones

Gil said...

I have not, with all due respect, read your article. I will do so later. My comment is with eager wholehearted agreement from many years back.
I usually pose this question twice to those who sneer at this truth:
1) Whom did Isaiah see according to the scriptures in Isaiah 6?
2) Whom did Isaiah see according to the scriptures in John 12?
The context in both passages is of the people's unbelief of Jehovah, whom Isaiah says (even in the JW's version) he saw. John sees a fulfillment of prophecy in the people's unbelief of Jesus with the people's unbelief of the one who, John says, Isaiah saw: Jehovah, that is, Jesus.
Good job, mate! (er, I'm not Aussie as I'm sure you can tell.)

Stephen E. Jones said...

Gil

>1) Whom did Isaiah see according to the scriptures in Isaiah 6?
2) Whom did Isaiah see according to the scriptures in John 12?
The context in both passages is of the people's unbelief of Jehovah, whom Isaiah says (even in the JW's version) he saw. John sees a fulfillment of prophecy in the people's unbelief of Jesus with the people's unbelief of the one who, John says, Isaiah saw: Jehovah, that is, Jesus.

Yes. Even in the JW's own NWT, the pre-incarnate Jesus is "Jehovah of armies himself", whose glory Isaiah saw with his own eyes, "sitting on a throne lofty and lifted up ... [in] the temple" (Isa 6:1-6 NWT):

Jn 12:36-40 NWT. "Jesus spoke these things and went off and hid from them. 37 But although he had performed so many signs before them, they were not putting faith in him, ... 39 The reason why they were not able to believe is that again Isaiah said: 40 `He has blinded their eyes and he has made their hearts hard, that they should not see with their eyes and get the thought with their hearts and turn around and I should heal them.' 41 Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory, and he spoke about him.

Isa 6:8-10 NWT. "8 And I began to hear the voice of Jehovah saying: `Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?' And I proceeded to say: `Here I am! Send me.' 9 And he went on to say: `Go, and you must say to this people, ‘Hear again and again, O men, but do not understand; and see again and again, but do not get any knowledge.’ 10 Make the heart of this people unreceptive, and make their very ears unresponsive, and paste their very eyes together, that they may not see with their eyes and with their ears they may not hear, and that their own heart may not understand and that they may not actually turn back and get healing for themselves.'"

Stephen E. Jones

Keith Martin said...

Interesting reply that there must be two 'Firsts' and 'Lasts'. Ask them if they know who first said something like that. Satan, the original liar, lied tohimself when he said "I will be like the Most High." How can there be two "Most Highs."
If one is really burdened for JWs, one should find where they live and visit there. When they come to your house they are psyched up, and not thinking.
Keith

Stephen E. Jones said...

Keith

>Interesting reply that there must be two 'Firsts' and 'Lasts'.

It just shows that JWs would believe that black is white and white is black if the Watchtower told them it was!

>Ask them if they know who first said something like that. Satan, the original liar, lied tohimself when he said "I will be like the Most High." How can there be two "Most Highs."

Good point!

>If one is really burdened for JWs, one should find where they live and visit there.

I would happily visit a JW at their home if they invited me to. But they don't even give their full name, let alone their address.

>When they come to your house they are psyched up, and not thinking.

Agreed. But a number of ex-JWs who I listened to online testified that a contradiction which a Christian planted like a seed in their minds nagged at them and once they started thinking the Watchtower might be wrong, they were on their way out of the cult.

Stephen E. Jones