Thursday, March 20, 2008

Justus Lipsius' De Cruce Liber Tres

A blessed Easter to my readers! In my next post in the series,

[Above: Woodcut of crux simplex from Justus Lipsius' De Cruce Libri Tres (1629), Wikipedia]

"Was Jesus executed on a cross or a stake?," I will be commenting on the following quote from page 1150 of the Watchtower's 1985 Kingdom Interlinear Translation, of which the above woodcut is shown as an illustration:

"`Cross'" is only a later meaning of crux. A single stake for impalement of a criminal was called in Latin crux simplex. One such instrument of torture is illustrated by Justus Lipsius (1547-1606) in his book De cruce libri tres, Antwerp, 1629, p. 19, which we here present. ... Crux simplex illustrated."

Since 1950 through to at least 1971, the Watchtower Society had been stating that, "This is the manner in which Jesus was impaled," giving the false impression that it was Lipsius who claimed, or believed, that Jesus was executed on a single upright stake. But bowing to criticism, the Society in its 1985 Kingdom Interlinear Translation quoted above, watered this down to it being only "One such instrument of torture ... illustrated by Justus Lipsius ..."

However, as we shall see, apart from showing in his book three times as many illustrations of crucifixion on a two-beamed cross compared to a single-beamed stake, Lipsius actually states in his book that "the Lord's cross" was the traditional two-beamed Roman cross (the crux immissa), so it is still deliberately misleading of the Society not to point that out to its readers.

The reason I am posting this separately from my above mentioned series is that I have recently returned from a brief holiday in Melbourne, where I visited the Victorian State Library and found Justus Lipsius' book, which the late ex-JW Jan Groenveld mentioned was there:

"`DE CRUCE LIBER PRIMUS' By quoting from this obscure source, the Society hoped their members would be unable to discover for themselves what this book actually says. However, there is one here in Australia, at the Victorian State Library in Melbourne! Copies concerning the relevant pages can be obtained by anyone through their own State Library or Local Municipal Library for those not living in the State capitals. On the following pages [p.42 & p.43] are the other pictures found in this book which the Society neglected to tell its members about. They cited ONE picture, which seemed to uphold their positions and then said, "This is the manner in which Jesus was impaled", ignoring the fact that Lipsius believed, based on the evidence that Jesus died on a cross. " (Groenveld, J., "The Cross and Jehovah's Witnesses: The truth about the Justus Lipsius' illustrations," in "Examining the Watchtower Society - Is It God's Organization?," 1988, pp.42-47).

So I decided to post a special report on that Justus Lipsius' book. However, it was not easy to find, it not being catalogued there as De Cruce Liber Primus nor as De Cruce Libri Tres, but it was in Volume III of Lipsius' Opera Omnia (complete works). To help others find it, the book De Cruce Liber Primus, or De Cruce Liber I (presumably "The Cross, Book I") is one of three books, the other two being De Cruce Liber Secundus, or De Cruce Liber II ("The Cross, Book II") and De Cruce Liber Tertius or De Cruce Liber III ("The Cross, Book III").

Here is my summary of those pages in Lipsius' three books, that had woodcuts of various forms of crosses, together with digital photos I took of those woodcuts (click images to enlarge). Because my photos were taken at an angle (there were limitations to how I could manipulate such a rare book), to varying degrees they are distorted by being narrower at the top than the bottom. The page numbers are of Opera Omnia Vol. III, since there are no page numbers of the individual books within Lipsius' complete works. The writing is in Latin, so I am unable to say what Lipsius meant by each woodcut, although there is a Latin translation of the woodcut at page 661, which I have quoted below.

De Cruce Liber Primus, page 647: Column 1: A woodcut [left] of what appears to be Cupid, with wings, bow and a quiver of arrows, tied to a tree by his arms and legs. Presumably Lipsius included this to illustrate that one form of crucifixion was being tied (or nailed) to a living tree.

Ibid., column 2: A man nailed to a single upright pole [right] or crux simplex by one nail through his hands and one nail through his feet. This is the only one that the Watchtower Society has used, to give the false impression that Lipsius claimed or believed that Jesus was impaled on a single upright stake and not a cross.

Ibid., page 648: An illustration [Left] of true impalement, where the victim was made to sit on a sharpened stake (Gk. skolops: Kittel & Friedrich, 1985, p.1047; Vine, 1940, pp.iv:130-131) which then passed through his body and exited his mouth.

Ibid., page 649: A man nailed through each hand and foot to an X shaped cross [right], i.e. a St Andrew's cross, or crux decussata (Zugibe, 1988, p.32; Torrance, 1982, p.253; Green, 1984, pp.21-22).


Ibid., page 650: A man nailed by each hand and both feet (i.e. 3 nails total) to a † shaped two-beamed cross [left], made out of two round (in cross-section) tree-trunks. This is the first of two examples that Lipsius gives of the crux immissa (also known as the Roman or Latin cross). This is traditionally the shape of the cross on which Jesus was executed (Finegan, 1992, p.352; Zugibe, 1988, p.32; Encyc. Brit., 1984, p.iii:256; Green, 1984, pp.21-22; Scott, 1984, p.287; Torrance, 1982, p.253; Unger, 1966, p.227), because it best fits the Biblical data of "the nail marks in his hands ... where the nails [plural] were" (Jn 20:25-27 NIV) and "Above his head [not above his hands] they placed the written charge against him" (Mt 27:35-37 NIV).

De Cruce Liber Secundus, page 661: Another example of a man nailed to a † shaped two-beamed crux immissa [below]. The main differences from the previous crux immissa at page 650, is that this one is made of flat sawn timber, not round (in cross section) tree trunks, and the victim is nailed by each hand and foot (i.e. 4 nails total).

Lipsius himself evidently regarded this type of cross (i.e. either this one or the one at page 650) as the one that Jesus was crucified on because he quoted Pope Innocent III (1161-1216) that: "In the Lord's cross there were four pieces of wood, the upright beam, the crossbar, a tree trunk (piece of wood) placed below, and the title (inscription) placed above"; as well as Irenaeus (c.120-200): "The construction itself of the cross has five ends, two on the vertical and two on the horizontal, and one in the middle where the person attached with nails rested,"and Tertullian (c.160-225); and "They divide the cross into five ends (`points' Tertullian calls them), those four which are known (familiar) and extend out; and the fifth which they place in the middle of the cross, where the transverse beam cuts and crosses the fixed beam" (Watters, 1996, p.80. My emphasis).

So the Watchtower Society is either incompetently ignorant in not bothering to translate Justus Lipsius' Latin, or more likely, deliberately dishonest in having translated it but not disclosing to its readers that Lipsius himself believed that Jesus was crucified on a two-beamed crux immissa and not a single-beamed crux simplex.

Ibid., page 668: Three different versions of patibulums (patibulii?) (Glare, 1982, p.1308; Lewis & Short, 1890, p.1314), i.e. originally the yoke or Latin furca that Roman slaves were made to bear [left] while being whipped as punishment, which did not necessarily involve nailing or execution (Leolaia, 2005; Glare, 1982, p.748; Lewis & Short, 1890, p.795).

De Cruce Liber Tertius, page 669: Three examples of Roman crucifixion which developed by combining that punishment of bearing the different furcas (furcii?) or patibulums with hanging them on an upright post or stipes [right] (Leolaia, 2005; Glare, 1982, p.1821; Lewis & Short, 1890, p.1314).

Ibid., page 670: Two examples of upside-down crucifixion [below left], showing the greater variety of tortures made possible by the addition of a cross-piece (Scott, 1984, p.287). This alone is sufficient reason for the brutal Romans to have adopted crucifixion on a two-beamed cross as the norm, well before the time of Christ.

Ibid., page 671: Crucifixion on a crux simplex combined with burning at the stake. [right]. However, like impalement at page 648 above, agonising though they were, the victim probably suffered less than under regular crucifixion because he would die quickly, so they were probably less preferred by the Romans.

Ibid., page 672: This last woodcut in Lipsius' third book [below left], shows how the dead victims could be left on their cross to be eaten by animals (Brown, 1975, pp.392-393).

As can be seen, there are 14 different illustrations in Justus Lipsius three books, of punishment or execution on a single-beamed stake, or on a two-beamed cross, or on the latter's precursors. Of these, 1 is on a tree (p.647); 3 are on a single stake (pp.647, 648 & 671); 1 is on what became cross-beams (p.668) and 9 are two-beamed crosses (pp.649, 650, 661, 669(3), 670(2) and 672.

So even if the Watchtower Society was only merely incompetent in not bothering to have Lipsius' Latin translated to find out if Lipsius himself believed that Jesus was executed on a single beamed stake or a two-beamed cross, the Society could not have missed that there are more illustrations of crucifixion on two-beamed crosses in these three Lipsius' books than all the other methods combined. In particular, Lipsius depicted three times as many depictions of crucifixion on two-beamed crosses than on single-beamed stakes.

Therefore, the only conclusion left is that the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society was (and is) being deliberately dishonest in not disclosing these `inconvenient' facts to its readers, so as to mislead them into thinking that Justus Lipsius himself believed that Jesus was executed on a single-beamed crux simplex, when Lipsius actually believed Jesus was crucified on a two-beamed cross.

See supporting `tagline' quotes below (emphasis italics original, emphasis bold mine).

Stephen E. Jones.
My other blogs: CreationEvolutionDesign & TheShroudofTurin


"During the Punic Wars (264-146 B.C.), the Romans encountered the Phoenician version of crucifixion and swiftly appropriated it as a means of capital punishment for slaves. Straying away from the purpose the Persians intended it for, the Romans converted it into a brutal torture machine. This was accomplished by adding a second piece of wood called the patibulum to the execution stake, as well as a thorn-shaped sedile upon which the victim rested his weight. Prior to the invention of crucifixion, the Romans used the patibulum to humiliate condemned slaves marching to their execution. Dionysius of Halicarnassus (first century B.C.) described this ancient practice: `A Roman citizen of no obscure station, having ordered one of his slaves to be put to death, delivered him to his fellow-slaves to be led away, and in order that his punishment might be witnessed by all, directed them to drag him through the Forum and every other conspicuous part of the city as they whipped him, and that he should go ahead of the procession which the Romans were at the time conducting in honour of the god. The men ordered to lead the slave to his punishment, having stretched out both hands and fastened them to a piece of wood (tas kheiras apoteinantes amphoteras kai xuló prosdésantes) which extended across his chest and shoulders as far as his wrists, followed him, tearing his naked body with whips' (Roman Antiquities, 7.69.1-2). This patibulum-bearing punishment, during which a slave is whipped and lead through the city, was practiced in pre-Republican times and was the direct ancestor of the portion of the crucifixion ritual in which the victim carries his own cross. It did not always precede execution; it was often used for humiliation. Other descriptions of this early form of punishment can be found in Livy and Plutarch, who both describe its use in pre-Republican times and reveal that the wood carried by the victim was also called a furca `fork'. `At an early hour of the day appointed for the games, before the show had begun, a certain householder had driven his slave, bearing a yoke (furca), through the midst of the circus, scourging the culprit as he went' (Livy, Roman History 2.36.1). `A certain man had handed over one of his slaves, with orders to scourge him through the forum, and then put him to death. While they were executing this commission and tormenting the poor wretch, whose pain and suffering made him writhe and twist himself horribly, the sacred procession in honor of Jupiter chanced to come up behind....And it was a severe punishment for a slave who had committed a fault, if he was obliged to take the piece of wood (xulon) with which they prop up the pole of a wagon, and carry it around through the neighborhood. For he who had been seen undergoing this punishment no longer had any credit in his own or neighboring households. And he was called a 'furcifer' (phourkipher), for what the Greeks call a prop, or support, is called 'furca' (phourkan) by the Romans' (Plutarch, Coriolanus 24.4-5). It is this piece of wood that centuries later became the crossbeam in the Roman cross.The crux compacta came into existence when Phoenician crucifixion was fused with the pre-existing Roman patibulum-bearing punishment. Not only was the errant slave punished by being paraded throughout the city yoked to a patibulum, but he now died suspended from it." (Leolaia, 2005, "The facts on crucifixion, stauros, and the `torture stake'," Jehovah's Witnesses Discussion Forum, June, 11)

"On page 647 of Lipsus' [sic] book, as depicted by the Governing Body, there is actually no mention of Jesus Christ at all; rather it is one of several woodcuts in this book illustrating how criminals were put to death on stakes and poles. The Governing Body would have you believe that Justus Lipsus is saying that this was how Jesus was 'impaled.' However, just 14 pages later, there is another woodcut of a man suspended on a cross. This time, Justus Lipsus does mention our Lord Jesus Christ! Here is a partial translation of page 661 of Lipsus' book: `I do not know whether the words of Innocent to this matter should be referred to: "In the Lord's cross there were four pieces of wood, the upright beam, the crossbar, a tree trunk (piece of wood) placed below, and the title (inscription) placed above."' `Also they hand down (this account by) Iraneus [sic]: "The construction itself of the cross has five ends, two on the vertical and two on the horizontal, and one in the middle where the person attached with nails rested."' `They divide the cross into five ends ("points" Tertullian calls them), those four which are known (familiar) and extend out; and the fifth which they place in the middle of the cross, where the transverse beam cuts and crosses the fixed beam." (Lipsius, J., "De Cruce Liber Primus," in Watters, R. , 1996, "Thus Saith the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses," Free Minds: Manhattan Beach CA, p.80).

"skolops; gen. skolopos, masc. noun. Something pointed, sharp, as a stake, the point of a hook, a thorn, prickle (Sept.: Hos. 2:6). In 2 Cor. 12:7, `a thorn in the flesh,' something which causes severe pain or constant irritation, probably some bodily infirmity, equal to astheneia (769), sickness, weakness. Syn.: akantha (173), a thorn, brier." (Zodhiates, S., 1992, "The Complete Word Study Dictionary: New Testament," AMG Publishers: Chattanooga TN, Third printing, 1994, p.1296).

"THE FORMS of the cross mark considered in this survey of the literary evidence are, therefore: the equilateral cross, which is essentially the Semitic taw in upright position, which was still used widely in the Hellenistic church and is commonly known as the Greek cross; the tau cross (crux commissa), which corresponds in shape to the Greek letter tau and the Latin letter t, the letters which were the first equivalents in those languages of the Hebrew taw; the Latin cross (crux immissa), which is like a Greek cross but with the lower arm longer than the other three; and the cross which is like the taw written sideways, the Greek chi, and the Latin x or `ten,' hence is known as the crux decussata. Originally this cross mark signified salvation and the divine name; even when the mark was connected with the instrument of the execution of Jesus it continued to express the saving power which works through his death." (Finegan, J., 1992, "The Archeology of the New Testament: The Life of Jesus and the Beginning of the Early Church," [1969], Princeton University Press: Princeton NJ, Revised edition, p.352).

"Throughout the period when crucifixion was practiced, several kinds of crosses were used. The basic forms were the crux simplex, composed of a single stake to which the hands were fastened above the head and the feet were fastened below (affixio), and the crux compacta, which consisted of two parts, the upright referred to as the stipes or staticulum, and the crosspiece, called the patibulum or antenna. The crux compacta varied in one of the following three forms. The crux commissa resembled the capital letter T and was sometimes referred to as the T-cross. The crux immissa, or capitata, is the conventional cross usually displayed in churches and sometimes called the Roman cross; its stipes projected above the patibulum ... This form is the one that most scholars believe was used to crucify Jesus because Scriptures relate that the titulus or title (placard) was placed above his head depicting the nature of his crime. `Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews' (Mark 15:26 and John 19:19). This, of course, depended in a large degree on the width of the patibulum because experiments reveal sufficient space even on the crux commissa. Another form, the crux decussata or X-cross, was also referred to as the Cross of St. Andrew because this was the form used to crucify St. Andrew at Patrae. This form may not have been unique to St. Andrew because the historian Josephus, in the Jewish War, reports that during the siege of Jerusalem, the Romans crucified Jews in a multiplicity of positions." (Zugibe, F.T. , 1988, "The Cross and the Shroud: A Medical Enquiry into the Crucifixion," [1982], Paragon House: New York NY, Revised edition, pp.32-33)

"Christ could well have been impaled on a form of crux (stau·ros') known as the crux simplex. That was how such a stake was illustrated by the Roman Catholic scholar Justus Lipsius of the 16th century." ("Is the Cross for Christians?," The Watchtower, August 15, 1987, p.23).

"skolops [pointed stake, thorn] 1. This rare term denotes a `pointed stake,' such as is used in pits or palisades. Being fastened to such a stake is a form of execution; the reference is to crucifixion on a T -shaped cross, or to impaling and exposure on a stake. Corpses are also impaled on stakes as a sign of disgrace. 2. Another meaning in the LXX is a `thorn' or `splinter' on the foot, finger, etc., which doctors remove by plasters or ointments. Spines of palms are used in magic, and demons supposedly put prickles on women's temples. In the OT God blocks the way of Israel with thickets in Hos. 2:8, and oppressors are splinters in the eyes of Israel in Num. 33:55 or thorns in Ezek. 28:24. 3. In 2 Cor. 12:7 Paul is speaking about bodily afflictions, and among these he mentions a skolops that God sends, that acts as a messenger of Satan, and that is obviously painful. The idea is not that of a stake to which the apostle is impaled, nor of a barb of depression, e.g., at his failure to win the Jews to Christ, or in reaction from ecstasy. Physical ill-treatment or a physical disability seems to be in view, but there can be no saying what it is. Although it hampers his work, God uses it to keep him from arrogance and to point him to his true strength. 4. Only rarely do Christians use the group with reference to Jesus' execution (cf. Origen Against Celsus 2.55.68-69). It lies outside the usage that soon develops in relation to the cross (cf. the paucity of anastauroun)." (Kittel, G. & Friedrich, G., eds., 1985, "Theological Dictionary of the New Testament: Abridged in one Volume," Bromiley, G.W., transl., Eerdmans: Grand Rapids MI, Reprinted, 1988, p.1047).

"There are four basic types of iconographic representations of the cross: the crux quadrata, or Greek cross, with four equal arms; the crux immissa, or Latin cross, whose base stem is longer than the other three arms; the crux commissa, in the form of the Greek letter tau, sometimes called St. Anthony's cross; and crux decussata, named from the Roman decussis, or symbol of the numeral 10, also known as St. Andrew's cross. Tradition favours the crux immissa as that on which Christ died, but some believe that it was a crux commissa. The many variations and ornamentations of processional, altar, and heraldic crosses, of carved and painted crosses in churches, graveyards, and elsewhere, are developments of these four types." ("Cross," Encyclopaedia Britannica, Benton: Chicago IL, 15th edition, 1984, Vol. iii, p.256).

"Apart from the single upright post (crux simplex) on which the victim was tied or impaled, there were three types of cross. The crux commissa (St Anthony's cross) was shaped like a capital T, thought by some to be derived from the symbol of the god Tammuz, the letter tau; the crux decussata (St Andrew's cross) was shaped like the letter X; the crux immissa was the familiar two beams †, held by tradition to be the shape of the cross on which our Lord died (Irenaeus, Haer. 2. 24. 4). This is strengthened by the references in the four Gospels (Mt. 27:37; Mk. 15:26; Lk. 23:38; Jn. 19:19-22) to the title nailed to the cross of Christ over his head." (Torrance, J.B., "Cross, Crucifixion," in Douglas, J.D., et al., 1982, eds., "New Bible Dictionary," [1962], InterVarsity Press, Leicester UK, Second edition, Reprinted, 1988, p.253).

"By NT times there seem to have been several different forms of `crosses' commonly used by the Romans. In addition to the single pole (crux simplex), most involved the use of at least two separate pieces of wood to construct a frame. However, crucifixion gave executioners opportunity to use their most cruel and sadistic creativity; victims were occasionally hung in grotesque positions by a variety of means. The two cross forms most likely used for the execution of Jesus are the St. Anthony's cross (crux commissa), shaped like a `T,' or the Latin cross (crux immissa),.on which the vertical piece rises above both the horizontal cross-bar (patibulum) and the head of the victim; the statement in Matt. 27:37 (cf. Luke 23:38) that the inscription was placed `over his head' and most ancient tradition favor the latter." (Scott, J.J., Jr, "Cross, Crucifixion," in Elwell, W.A., ed., 1984, "Evangelical Dictionary of Theology," Baker: Grand Rapids MI, Seventh printing, 1990, p.287).

"The Romans, who seem to have got hold of the idea of crucifixion from the Phoenicians in the Punic Wars, became expert at this most grisly method of execution. ... There were various ways of doing it. The most basic was to hang the man or impale him on a stake (crux simplex). More frequently there was a crossbeam (patibulum) across the stipes, or upright. It could be fixed to the top of the upright, making the shape of a capital T (crux commissa), and the Christian writers of the second century made considerable play with that fact. More often it was fixed a third of the way from the top, thus forming the Latin cross (crux immissa), and it is widely believed that Jesus was executed on a cross of this shape. The third variety was what we know as the St. Andrew's cross, shaped like a capital X (crux decussata) on which the victim could be stretched either the right way up or upside down." (Green, E.M.B., 1984, "The Empty Cross of Jesus," The Jesus Library, Hodder & Stoughton: London, pp.21-22).

"furca ~ae, j. [dub,] 1 An instrument with two arms or prongs, a fork. delapsae (cupae) ab lateribus longuriis ~isque ab opere remouentur CAES.Civ. qui erexerant ad murum scalas., ~is ad id ipsum factis detrudebantur LIV.28.3.7; ~a leuat..bicorni..terga suis nigro pendentia tigno Ov. Met.8.648; ~a de carnario rapta PETR.95.8; piscatores circumdant retia ~isque subleuant PLIN.Nat.9.31; TAC. Ann. 3.46; (prov.) naturam expelles ~a, tamen usque recurret HOR.Ep.1.10.24. 2 A Y-shaped piece of wood used as a support, forked prop. b (used for carrying loads). c (as a cross or gallows). ~as circum offigitu, eo. perticas intendito CATO Agr.4.8.2; exacuunt alii uallos ~asque bicornis VERG.G.1.264; spectauere ~is duodenos ab terra spectacula alta sustinentibus pedes LIV.1.35.9; nisi subdita ramo longa laboranti ~a tulisset opem Nux 14; PLIN. Nat.14.32; - (in primitive building) ~is erectis et uirgulis interpositis luto parietes texerant VITR.2.1.3; ~ae utrimque suspensae fulciebant casam SEN.Ep.90.10; - (in taming bullocks) si eorum (sc. iuuencorum) colla in ~as destitutas incluserit VAR.R.1.20.2. b. milites in ~a interposita tabella .. onera sua portare adseuerant FEST.p.149M; FRON.Str.4.1.7. c canes .. uiui ~in a sabucea armo fixi PLIN.,Nat.29.57; latrones .. ~a figendos CALL.dig.48.19.28.15; sacrilegos .. in ~a suspendisse ULP.dig.48.13.7(6). 3 A forked frame put on a man's neck as punishment, his arms being, fastened to the projecting ends. ut quidem tu hodie canem et ~am teras PL.Cas.389; caesum uirgis sub ~a Men.943: seruus per circum. .. ~am ferens ductus est CIC.Div.1.55; LIV. 1.26.10; hominis ceruicem inseri ~ae SUET.Nero 49.2: (fig) ibis sub ~am prudens HOR.S.2.7.66. 4 (pl.) The claws or pincer; (of a crab). cancrorum: " ~as APUL.Apol.35 5 ~ae Caudinae, The Caudine Forks (see FVRCVLAE). excercitum nostrum..apud Caudinas ~as sub iugum a Samnitibus missum V.MAX.5.1 ext .5; 7.2. ext.17; LUC.2.138." (Glare, P.G.W., ed, 1982., "Oxford Latin Dictionary," [1968], Clarendon Press: Oxford, p.748).

"patibulatus ~a ~um, a. [NEXT + - ATVS 2] Fastened to a yoke or gibbet. ita te forabunt ~urn peruias stimulis PL.Mos.56; extiabili nexu ~um APUL.Met.4.10.

patibulum ~i, n. Also ~us m. [PATEO + - BVLVM] GENDER: ~os (acc. pl.) CLOD.hist.3. 1 A fork-shaped yoke or gibbet to which criminals were fastened. ~um ferat per urbem, deinde adfigatur cruci PL.fr.48; tibi Marcelli statua pro ~o in clientis Marcellorum fuit? CIC.Ver.4.90; ~o eminems affigebatur SAL.Hist.3.9; ~o pendere districtum SEN.Ep.101.12; extendendae per ~um manus fr.(Haase p.414); TAC.Hist.4.3; Ann.14.33; ~o suffigi APUL.Met.6.31. 2 A fork-shaped prop for vines. CATO Agr.26; 68; Nouariensis agricola .. inpositis .. ~is palmites circumuoluit PLIN.Nat.17.212. 3 A bar for fastening a door (acc. Non. p.366M). si quisquam ... posticum nostrum pepulerit, ~o hoc in caput diffringam TITIN.com.31." (Glare, 1982, p.1308).

"stipes ~itis, m. [perh. cogn. W. STIPO] FORMS: nom. stips PETR.43.5; abl. stipe Ov.Met. 15.525 (s.v.l.). 1 The trunk or bole (of a tree), or its lower part. b the remains of a tree-trunk left in the ground, stump. c a hardened or woody branch. recto proceras ~ite laurus CATUL.64.289; consternunt terram concusso ~ite frondes VERG.A.4.444; cum pirus inuito ~ite mala tulit PROP.4.2.18; dentibus ille (sc. aper) ferox in querno ~ite tritis inminet exitio Ov.Met.8.369; artores .. procerae, ~ites hedera contexerat CURT. 7.9.15; 8.4.7; quercus. diffusas patulo laxabat ~ite frondes SIL..5.487; APUL.Met.8.22; (app. dist. from truncus) bones, cum ad arborem uenerint, fortiter retinere (oportet) .. , ne . . cornu bos ad ~item offendat aut extremo iugo truncum delibet COL..2.2.26;-(as a material) ~es acernus ezam, properanti falce dolatus PROP.4.2.59; uiridi de ~ite factas. . faces Ov.lb.235;-(contempt. applied to a tree showing no signs of life) (cerasus) bacas exire uetabit..(ficus) ~es inanis erit Nux 32; (transj.) in niueo uirides ~ite (sc. of a leek) cerne comas MART.13.19.2. b ueneror, seu ~es habet desertus in agris seu uetus in triuio ftorida serta lapis TIB.1.1.11; ni rota..~itis occursu fracta .. fuisset Ov.Met.15.523. c(Medea) arenti ramo. .oliuae omnia confudit .. ecce uetus calido uersatus ~es aeno fit uiridis Ov.Met. 7.279; ~ite..diro uirgas mentita Sabaeas toxica LUC. 9.820. 2 A stout stick (natural or prepared) used for various purposes, stake, post, etc. b (as a weapon). c a stick used as fuel. d a stick (as a type of what is lifeless) ; (hence, as a term of abuse for someone stupid). haec (sc. Nauis) medium ostendit radiato ~ite malum CIC.Arat.638(392); ibi sudis ~itesque praeacutos defigit CAES.Civ:1.27.3; arcae ~itibus robusteis et catenis inclusae VITR.5.12.3; alii per obscena ~item egerunt SEN.Dial. 6.20.3; granaria, quae ex tabulis fieri solent, ita aedium sunt, si ~ites eorum in terra defossi sunt JAVOL.dig.19.1.18; - (in a fence) emporium lapide strauerunt ~itibusque saepserunt LIV.41.27.8; COL.9.1.3; (as a stake for punishment, tying tip, etc.) ad supplicium .. acti ~itibus singulis pendent SEN.Dial.7.19.3; buculos .. ad ~ites religato COL.6.2.4; SUET.Nero 29; - (in an oil- or wine- press) inter binos stipites uectibus locum P XXII, alteris uasis .. ab ~ite extremo ad parietem qui pone arbores est P XX CATO Agr.18.2; in uasa uinaria ~ites arboresque binis pedibus altiores facito 19.1; - (as a target in sword practice) non te paganica thermis praeparat aut nudi ~itis ictus hebes MART.7.32.8. b hic torre armatus obusto, ~itis hic grauidi nodis VERG.A.7.507; rem. terox saxis ~itibusque gerit Ov.Fast.1.570; CURT. 9.7.21; letiforo ~ite SEN.Her.O.209; STAT.Theb.4.l56. c uestigat .. focum .. paruulus exusto remanebat ~ite fumus Mor.8; cassa .. seducto ~ite flamma perit Ov.Rem.446; Met.8.451; cremasse suum fertur sub ~ite natum (sc. Meleagrum) Thestias Tr.1.7.17; flagranti ~ite dextra minax terris incendia portat PETR.124,l.263; (cf.) inscripsit .. semasto ~ite nomen (i.e. in charcoal) LUC.8.792. d cum hoc homine an cum ~ite. in foro constitisses, nihil crederes interesse CIC.Red.Sen.14; in me quiduis harum rerum conuenit quae sunt dicta in stulto, caudex ~es asinu' plumbeus TER.Hau.877; - item illum qui quorum hominum esset nesciremus CIC.Har.5; ille stips .. nescio cui terrae filio patrimonium elegauit PETR.43.5." (Glare, 1982, p.1821).

"According to Roman practice, the procedure of crucifixion would then be as follows. First, there was the legal conviction. Only in extraordinary cases, such as in times of war, did this occur at the place of execution itself. If the execution took place at somewhere other than the place of sentencing, the condemned man carried the patibulum to the spot which was usually outside the town. The expression `to bear the cross (stauros)' which is a typical description of the punishment of slaves has its origin here. At the place of execution the victim was stripped and scourged. He may also have been previously scourged. This practice was an important part of crucifixion which took place between sentencing and execution. The condemned man was tied with outstretched arms to the cross-beam which was presumably laid upon his shoulders. Nailing is testified to only in isolated instances (Hdt., 9, 120, 4; 7, 33). It is uncertain whether this was done to the feet as well as to the hands. (In the post-resurrection narrative; of Jesus' appearances, Jn. 20:20, 25 ff. mentions Jesus' hands, and Lk. 24:39 his hands and feet.) The victim was then hoisted on to the stake with the cross beam. Death came slowly - after extraordinary agony, probably through exhaustion or suffocation. The body could be left on the scaffold to rot or provide food for predatory animals and carrion crows. There is evidence that the body was occasionally given to relatives or acquaintances." (Brown, C., ed., 1975, "The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology: Vol. 1: A-F," Zondervan: Grand Rapids MI , pp.392-393)

"Such a single stake for impalement of a criminal was called crux simplex, and the method of nailing him to such an instrument of torture is illustrated by the Roman Catholic scholar, Justus Lipsius, of the 16th century. We present herewith a photographic copy of his illustration on page 647, column 2, of his book De Cruce Liber Primus. This is the manner in which Jesus was impaled. ... Crux simplex illustrated by Justus Lipsius. See page 1360" ("New World translation of the Holy Scriptures," [1961], Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of New York: Brooklyn NY, Third revision with footnotes, 1971, pp.1360-1361).

"Such a single stake for impalement of a criminal was called crux simplex, and the method of nailing him to such an instrument of torture is illustrated by the Roman Catholic scholar, Justus Lipsius, of the 16th century. We present herewith a photographic copy of his illustration on page 647, column 2, of his book De Cruce Liber Primus. This is the manner in which Jesus was impaled." ("New World translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures," [1950], Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of New York: Brooklyn NY, Second edition, 1951, p.769).

"Cross (Gr. stauros, a stake; Lat. crux). ... Form. The cross which was used as an instrument of death (see Crucifixion) was either a plain vertical stake to which the victim was fastened, with the hands tied or nailed above the head, or such a stake provided with a crossbar, to which the victim was fastened with the arms outstretched. Of this latter kind three varieties were known, so that there were four forms of the cross: (1) Simple (Lat. simplex), I ; (2) St. Andrew's (decussata), X; (3) St. Anthony's (commissa), T; (4) The Latin (immissa), †. " (Unger, M.F., 1966, "Cross," in "Unger's Bible Dictionary," [1957], Moody Press: Chicago IL, Third edition, Fifteenth printing, 1969, p.227).

"SKOLOPS (skolops) originally denoted anything pointed, e.g., a stake; in Hellenistic vernacular, a thorn (so the Sept., in Numb. 33:55 ; Ezek. 28:24 ; Hos. 2:6), 2 Cor. 12:7, of the Apostle's `thorn in, the flesh;' his language indicates that it was physical, painful, humiliating; it was also the effect of Divinely permitted Satanic antagonism; the verbs rendered `that I should (not) be exalted overmuch' (R.V.) and `to buffet' are in the present tense, signifying recurrent action, indicating a constantly repeated attack. Lightfoot interprets it as `a stake driven through the flesh,' and Ramsay agrees with this. Most commentators adhere to the rendering `thorn.' " (Vine, W.E., 1940, "An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words: With Their Precise Meanings for English Readers,"Oliphants: London, Nineteenth impression, 1969, Vol. IV., pp.130-131).

"furca, ae f. [Sanscr. bhur-ig. shears; cf. Lat. forceps, forfex; also Gr. phuros, plough ; Lat. forare; Engl. bore, Curt. Gr. .Etym. p.299; but Corss. refers furca to root : dhar-, - fero, as a prop. support; v. Ausspr. 1. 149], a two-pronged fork. I. Lit. exacuunt alii vallos furcasque bicornes, Verg. . G. 1. 264: valentes, id. ib. 2, 359: furcis detrudi. Liv. 28, ;3, 7; cf. Caes. B. C. 2. 11. 2. -Prov.: naturam expellas furca. tamenusque recurret. with might and main. Hor. Ep:. 1. 10. 24. (v. furcilla).- II. Transf, of things shaped like a fork. A. A fork-shaped prop, pale or stake, for carrying burdens on the back or shoulder. Plaut. Cas. 2, 8, 2: for supporting the seats of a theatre, Liv. 1, 35, 9; for a vine. Plin. 14.2, § 32; for fishing nets, id. 9, 8. 9, § 31; for the gable of a house, Ov. M. 8. 700; a frame on which meat was suspended in the chimney, id. ib. 8. 648 - B. An instrument of punishment in the form of a fork (V or †), which was placed on the culprit's neck, while his hands were fastened to the two ends, a yoke (cf. crux , gabalus, patibulum; hence, furcifer): To. Satis sumpsimus jam supplici. Do. Fateer. manus vobis do. To. Post dabis sub furcis, Plaut. Pers. 5, 2, 71: canem et furcam ferre. id. Cas. 2, 6, 37: servus per circum, cum virgis caederetur, furcam ferens ductus est. Cic. Div. 1, 26, 55 : servus sub furca caesus, Liv. 2, 36, 1. Drak.; Val. Max. 1. 7. 4: Lact. 2, 7, 20): sub furca vinctus, inter verbera et cruciatus, Liv 1. 26. 10 : cervicem inserere furcae. Suet. Ner. 49; Eutr. 7, 5; Prud. streph. 10, 851 - Hence poet. to designate the worst condition of slavery: ibis sub furcam prudens. Hor. S. 2. 7. 66. - C. A fork shaped gallows : aliquem furca ligere. Dig. 48. 19. 28 fin.: furcae subicere, ib. 9: in furcam tollere, ib 38: in furcam suspendere, ib. 13. 6: in furcam damnare. ib. 49, 16, 3 : canes vivi in furca, sambucca arbore fixi , Plin. 29. 4. 14, § 57. - D. a fork shaped yoke in which young bullocks were put to be tamed, Varr.R. R. I, 20. 20. - E. Furcae cancrorum, the claws of a crab. App. Mag. p. 297. - F. Furcae Caudinae, the narrow pass of Caudium, the Caudine Forks, usually called Furculae Caudinae (v. furcula, II. and Caudium), Val. Max. 5, 1, 5 ext.; 7, 2, 17 ext. " (Lewis, C.T. & Short, C.S., 1890, "A Latin Dictionary," Clarendon Press: Oxford, p.795. Emphasis original).

"patibulatus, a um, adj.[patibulum], fastened to the patibulum: yoked, gibbeted, Plaut. Most. 1; 1. 53: patibulatus ferar per urbem, deinde .affigar cruci, id. Fragm. ap. Non. 221. 13 (al. patibulum) : exitiabili nexu patibulatum relinquens, gibbeted, App. M. 4, p. 147, 4 (al. patibulum).

patibulum, i, n. (masc collat. form patibulus, i, Varr. ap. Non. 221.12: v. in the foll.) [pateo], a fork-shaped yoke, placed on the necks of criminals, and to which their hands were tied; also, a fork-shaped gibbet (syn. furca). I. Lit.: dispessis manibus patibulum quom habebis, Plaut. Mil. 2, 4, 7: patibulo eminens adfigelatur, Sall. Pragm. ap. Non. 4. 355 (Hist. 4, 40 Dietsch): caedes, patibula, ignes, cruces, Tac. A. 14, 33; Cic. Verr. 2, 4. 41, § 90.-:Masc.: deligat ad patibulos. Varr. ap. Nou. 221. 12: suspende eos contra solem in patibulis, Vulg. Num. 25, 4.- II. A forked, prop for vines, Plin. 17, 23, 35, § 212; Cato, R. R. 26. - B. A wooden bar for fastening a door, Titin, ap. Non. 366, 16.

1. patibulus, a. um, adj. [pateo], fastened to a patibulum; yoked, gibbeted, Plaut. Fragm. ap. Non. 221, 13; App. App. M. 4. p. 147 (in both passages al. leg, patibulatum; v. patibulatus).

2. patibulus, i, m, v. patibulum." (Lewis & Short, 1890, p.1314).

"stipes, itis (collat. form stips, stipis, Petr. 43, 5). m. [root stip-, = Gr. steph- ; v. stipo; Sanscr. sthapa-jami, to cause to stand, to fix, place; cf. stipula]. I. Lit., a log, stock, post, trunk of a tree, etc. (class.; syn.: palus, sudes), Cat. 64. 289; Caes. B. G. 7, 73; id. B. C. 1. 27; Tib. 1, 1, 11 (21); Prop 4 (5), 2, 18; Ov. M. 8; 451; id. F. 2, 642; 5, 506; Verg. A. 7.524; Curt, 8, 10, 30; 4, 3,10: I deligare ad stipitem. to a stake, Suet. Ner. 29.- As a term of contempt, like our log, stock, post. of a stupid person: in me quidvis harum rerum convenit, Quae sunt dicta in stultum, caudex, stipes, asinus, plumbeus, Ter. Heaut. 5, 1, 4 : qui, tamquam truncus; atque stipes, si stetisset modo, posset sustinere tamen titulum consulatus, Cic. Pis. 9. 19; cf. id. Har. Resp. 3,5; id. ap. Senat. 6, 14; Claud. in Eutr. 1. 126. - II. Transf, poet. 1. A tree Ov. F. 3, 37; id. de Nuci, 32; Verg. A. 4. 444; Claud. Cons. Prob. et Olybr. 179.- 2. A branch of a tree, Luc. 9; 820; Mart. 13. 19, 2: candelabri, the main stem of the candlestick, Vu1g. Exod. 37, 19." (Lewis & Short, 1890, p.1760).

22 comments:

letusreason said...

The problem here, is that many of the pictures shown are shown by those who already approach the subject of 'cross or stake' already believing Jesus died on a 'cross'. The other problem, is that the extensive use of the erroneous English word 'cross' is used, when in Greek, there is no such word as 'cross' or even its equivalent and in Hebrew, there is no word at all equated with 'cross'! In the NT, the Jews did not shout 'crucify him', but "impale him" and even the word "pale' [as in 'im-pale' should tell you something...!

The problem arose because of the misunderstanding by the 1611 CE KJV translators, because, they got confused with the Latin 'crux simplex' with 'cross', which has no bearing on the Greek words used in the NT. The KJV translators arbitrarily and erroneously translated 'crux' as 'cross' and we have been stuck with it ever since, since the basic definition of 'crux simplex' is an upright pale or gibbet, the word in Acts 5, 10 and 13 used is 'Tree'.

The origin of the 'cross' and its cultural history is dealt in part in the link above!

letusreason


http://crossorstake2.blogspot.com/

Stephen E. Jones said...

letusreason

>The problem here, is that many of the pictures shown are shown by those who already approach the subject of 'cross or stake' already believing Jesus died on a 'cross'.

Thanks for your comment. However, I am too busy to respond at the moment, having a number of assignments to complete in my university science teaching course.

I will respond probably next weekend, either here as a comment, or in a separate blog post.

Stephen E. Jones

Adam said...

Your scripture reference at John 20:25 seems to support your assertion. though I don't know why we assume either way that they would only need 1 nail in each hand. Matthews 27 is not a logical argument. no reason whatever that should make any more sense in either scenario. as for the rest,
The Watchtowers entire argument is that cross and the imagery it implies is not a valid translation of crux
and posit crux simplex to be the most viable interpretation
because they obviously are only referencing Lipsius book as an early illustration of crux simplex I don't believe honesty begs they state his position in the matter,

weather or not the two beamed crux was the most common form of execution at the time. It is not unreasonable to at least imagine that unusual methods may have been used in this situation.
Pontius Pilate was disgusted with the whole thing. He saw no reason why the Jewish leaders should demand he be executed. He placed the sign labeling Jesus the king of the Jews in spite of protests from the Sanhedron Its not unlikely that he may have used a more local less Roman form of torture.
I believe that the most important thing to note is that the bible doesn’t say. for some reason the gospel writers or early translators didn’t see a need for the more descriptive modifiers i.e. simplex, decussata, or immissa. Perhaps they believed it would be a distraction, a hinderance to future followers who might attribute it too much significance.

(1 Corinthians 2:14) a physical man does not receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know [them], because they are examined spiritually. -NWT

Stephen E. Jones said...

Adam

>Your scripture reference at John 20:25 seems to support your assertion. ...

Thanks for your comment. I have responded to it in a separate post: "Re: New comment on Justus Lipsius' De Cruce Liber Tres."

Stephen E. Jones

Anonymous said...

Lipsius thought that Jesus had died on a cross which we can see nowadays in churches. When he was writing "De cruce" he was a Catholic and he believed that Jesus is God who offerd His life on the cross.

Stephen E. Jones said...

Anonymous

>Lipsius thought that Jesus had died on a cross which we can see nowadays in churches. When he was writing "De cruce" he was a Catholic and he believed that Jesus is God who offerd His life on the cross.

Yes. If the Watchtower was honest, it would have reminded its JW readers of those highly relevant facts.

But then Watchtower's readers would have realised that Lipsius himself firmly believed that Jesus died on a CROSS (as he actually states in his book), NOT on a stake as the Watchtower falsely claims.

Stephen

Anonymous said...

In your blog you comment the work of Lipsius. And what about the book of Hermann Fulda and the book of Paul Wilhelm Schmidt? These work cite NWT in appendix 5C.

For instance this illustration is to find in the Fulda's book:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:FULDA_HERMANN_1878_Das_Kreuz_und_die_Kreuzigung_p_106.JPG

Stephen E. Jones said...

Anonymous

>In your blog you comment the work of Lipsius.

That is because it is Lipsius' work that the Watchtower prominently featured by a picture and quote in its NWT.

>And what about the book of Hermann Fulda and the book of Paul Wilhelm Schmidt? These work cite NWT in appendix 5C.

That the Watchtower can find two 19th century German scholars who agree with its thesis that Jesus was executed on a stake, not a cross, proves nothing.

Like the Watchtower is, Fulda and Schmidt were, simply wrong. The evidence is overwhelming that Jesus was executed on a two-beamed cross, not a single-beamed stake. See my yet-to-be-completed series "Was Jesus executed on a cross or a stake?."

See also the following current quote from Wikipedia:

"Crucifixion is an ancient method of painful execution in which the condemned person is tied or nailed to a large wooden cross (of various shapes) and left to hang until dead. The term comes from the Latin crucifixio ('fixing to a cross', from the prefix cruci-, from crux ('cross'), + verb figere, `fix or bind fast'.) Crucifixion was in use particularly among the Seleucids, Carthaginians, and Romans from about the 6th century BC to the 4th century AD. In the year 337, Emperor Constantine I abolished it in the Roman Empire, out of veneration for Jesus Christ, the most famous victim of crucifixion. ... At times the gibbet was only one vertical stake, called in Latin crux simplex or palus, or in Greek μόνος σταυρός (monos stauros, i.e. isolated stake). This was the simplest available construction for torturing and killing the condemned. FREQUENTLY, HOWEVER, THERE WAS A CROSS-PIECE ATTACHED EITHER AT THE TOP TO GIVE THE SHAPE OF A T ( crux commissa) or just below the top, as in the form most familiar in Christian symbolism ( crux immissa). Other forms were in the shape of the letters X and Y. The first writings about the crucifixion of Jesus do not speak specifically about the shape of that cross, but ALL THE EARLY WRITINGS THAT DO, FROM ABOUT THE YEAR 100 ON, DESCRIBE IT AS SHAPED LIKE THE LETTER T (the Greek letter tau) or as COMPOSED OF AN UPRIGHT AND A TRANSVERSE BEAM, sometimes with a small ledge in the upright." ("Crucifixion," Wikipedia, 10 October 2010. My emphasis).

Stephen

Anonymous said...

Thanks for your answer. But you should present the pictures from the book of Fulda, which show that the usual Roman crucifixion method was to bind the condemned person's wrists to a beam (called Latin PATIBULUM) and then attach this beam to a tree (or stake), thereby forming a cross. Why WTS hides this fact and did never mention this in his publication?

Anonymous said...

to my last post please add the following text with link:

The detailed description what Fulda has written in his book you can see on the following page:

http://www.piotrandryszczak.pl/pal.html

You can take all the pictures from the Fulda work to your using if you want

Stephen E. Jones said...

Anonymous

>But you should present the pictures from the book of Fulda, which show that the usual Roman crucifixion method was to bind the condemned person's wrists to a beam (called Latin PATIBULUM) and then attach this beam to a tree (or stake), thereby forming a cross.

Thanks for this information.

But the link you sent me of a picture from Fulda's book, Das Kreuz Und Die Kreuzigung (1878), was of a victim on a single-beamed crux simplex.

However, on Googling "Hermann Fulda" images I found what appear to be other pictures from Fulda's book of many different forms of crucifixion on crosses. Your next comment indicates that is so.

A reprint of Fulda's book is now available, so I might buy it eventually to personally verify that. I cannot read German but I could translate key parts using Babel Fish.

My policy is not to post what I personally have not verified, which is why I waited until I had personally photographed pages from Justus Lipsius' book in a library.

>Why WTS hides this fact and did never mention this in his publication?

Agreed that if what you say is true, then is just another example of the Watchtower's dishonesty, in only presenting part of the evidence to its readers.

Stephen

Anonymous said...

You are right this is next dishonesty of WTS.

It is possible to translate some fragments if you want or you can make in the similar manner as with Lipsius' Work: you will describe what you suppose appear on every picture.

As I know one exemplar of Fulda's work is in the Bayern State Library in Munic.
When you want to have the original pictures from this book, please come to germany and you can borrow this book and make photos.
I can help you to receive access to this library.

Stephen E. Jones said...

Anonymous

>to my last post please add the following text with link:
>
The detailed description what Fulda has written in his book you can see on the following page:
>
http://www.piotrandryszczak.pl/pal.html

Thanks for that link also. It was these pictures I found on the web of many different modes of crucifixion on crosses.

>You can take all the pictures from the Fulda work to your using if you want

Thanks, but as I said, I will buy Fulda's book eventually and then post scanned plates from it of crucifixion on crosses, together with Fulda's translated text about those cross crucifixions.

But before that I want to continue with my series, "Was Jesus executed on a cross or a stake? #3E Historical (2nd - 1st Century BC)."

However, I have just had a call from a high school for relief teaching in science tomorrow. So I may be working more in fourth term than I thought I would be, which means less blogging.

Stephen

Anonymous said...

As I have said you are invited to the Germany. You can get there gratis an accomodation, perhaps eating as well. Somebody born in USA but living in Germany can you literally translate the german text into english.

Stephen E. Jones said...

Anonymous

>You are right this is next dishonesty of WTS.

The Watchtower never foresaw the rise of the Internet, where its lies can be exposed for all to see. Read, "How Emerging Internet Technologies will Affect Watchtower Growth," December 2008.

>It is possible to translate some fragments if you want or you can make in the similar manner as with Lipsius' Work: you will describe what you suppose appear on every picture.

That is what I will do.

>As I know one exemplar of Fulda's work is in the Bayern State Library in Munic. ... come to germany and you can borrow this book and make photos. ...

Thanks but as I live in Australia, that would be a bit expensive!

But as I said, a print-on-demand reprint of Fulda's book Das Kreuz Und Die Kreuzigung is now available, and in fact I have just ordered it.

When I receive it, I will (time permitting) post my scans of the plates showing crucifixions on crosses accompanied by an English translation of Fulda's adjacent German text, using Babel Fish or Google's German-English translation facility.

Stephen

Anonymous said...

You have made great work.

Do you live in Australia! Have you ever been in Europe? Just make a beautiful holidays in Europe!

But I have just seen, that you can buy the Fulda's book (edition 2010). Just write in google: "Hermann Fulda" book.
You will see many offerts.

I can't say what are differences between editions but I strongly suppose it is what you need.

What does it mean: print-on-demand?

Anonymous said...

did you receive Fulda's book already?

Stephen E. Jones said...

Anonymous

>did you receive Fulda's book already?

Yes, I did receive it, only yesterday.

But unfortunately it has no pictures in it, only German text.

So I am going to send it back and get a refund.

Stephen

Anonymous said...

From what an dealer did you buy this book? I can't order the book only to first see it! It is the problem, what a pity :(

Anonymous said...

I could send you illustrations from Fulda's book when you want.

Stephen E. Jones said...

Anonymous

>I could send you illustrations from Fulda's book when you want.

Thanks but my policy is to post only on what I have personally verified, i.e. by seeing with my own eyes Fulda's book with the pictures in it.

Stephen

Anonymous said...

As I have already said you can see these illustration under the following link:

http://www.piotrandryszczak.pl/pal.html

or you are welcome in germany, where yo can see this book and you are able to make some photos and to get translation into englisch.